E93 [AI-Translated] Physical AI | vVARDIS Unicorn | Seed Shift | Vibe VC | Career | Bubble | Bug Bounty | 9T | Polariton

00:00:00: The original podcast was recorded in German.

00:00:03: This podcast

00:00:14: the VC Insider podcast.

00:00:17: I'm talking here with Guy Giafredi about the startup scene, where a focus on venture capital.

00:00:22: we're approaching the one hundredth episode.

00:00:25: We've reached Episode ninety three and were recording on Thursday April thirtieth at nine p.m.. In The Evening.

00:00:31: this podcast is sponsored by our partners omniumandupscale.ch.

00:00:37: guy.

00:00:37: what are today's topics?

00:00:39: Yes, today in the news we have how physical AI hubs are developing in Europe and also where we as Switzerland stand then will look at Apollo's investment in Vardis or however you pronounce it.

00:00:51: And as the third news item, we'll take a look at new U.S.

00:00:55: seed investment data from Crunchbase in The Deep Dive.

00:00:58: We have Oliver Fluckega from Vibe.vc As A Guest.

00:01:02: There will learn what vibe coding is and how you can invest in this space as a VC.

00:01:07: So extremely exciting.

00:01:08: I'm really looking forward to what he's going tell us.

00:01:11: Then In the listener question... ...we received one about How To Best Start A Career in VCE.

00:01:16: Finally.. ..as always we've prepared few transactions for you.

00:01:20: Yes, before we start with the news an unprepared question once again for you guy.

00:01:24: What do you think who has been the most successful VC worldwide over the last five years?

00:01:30: Yes that's of course a good question.

00:01:33: besides you it could be Andreessen Horowitz or Sequoia and maybe also first founder Capital Founders fund, those are always names that perform very well.

00:01:44: Yes good one.

00:01:45: thank you for the flowers.

00:01:46: unfortunately it's not me or at least not yet its SPF namely Sam Bankman Fried.

00:01:51: just briefly what he bought through FTX and where the valuations stand today.

00:01:56: That is very interesting.

00:01:58: For example Kursor He invested two hundred thousand And his stake now worth three billion?

00:02:04: Thats a performance of.

00:02:05: I have to read this.

00:02:12: I don't know, crazy numbers.

00:02:25: Solana he invested one hundred eighty nine million dollars.

00:02:29: now it stands at five point one billion.

00:02:32: that's a plus of two thousand six hundred percent.

00:02:34: Robin Hood He invested six hundred twelve million.

00:02:37: his stake is worth five billion.

00:02:39: and Genesis Digital he invested One point one seven billion And its Now worth three-and-a-half billion.

00:02:46: So if he hadn't done anything wrong, He'd have around one hundred fourteen billion in wealth today and instead.

00:02:52: He's sitting imprisoned the federal correctional institution and tweeting a bit that pretty wild.

00:02:58: yes you can say of course I knew it was him or let's assume nobody else has made crazier investments over the last few years.

00:03:05: uh... That's a misconception.

00:03:07: many people when looking at VC they look at big names like A-Sixteen Z Sequoia But those aren't actually the top performers.

00:03:15: They're consistently good, but not the best.

00:03:18: The Best are often new VCs who take a lot of risk early on and build a name And maybe for SBF or rather, the creditors he harmed.

00:03:26: They might actually end up with a much better deal now than they ever would have all the crypto investments made on his platform.

00:03:32: so may be it turned out quite well but we'll definitely read more about that.

00:03:37: yes I mean you'd also have to critically reflect on.

00:03:40: court ruling was convicted of misappropriation among other things and i don't know where will assets flow when companies IPO like spacex in next few weeks.

00:03:52: I assume all investors will receive massive returns and the poor guy is sitting in prison instead, poor in quotation marks.

00:03:59: It's proven he didn't act entirely cleanly.

00:04:02: on the other hand if everything goes well He makes a lot of people very rich.

00:04:07: so it's quite a crazy story.

00:04:09: We'll definitely hear more about it.

00:04:11: Let's move onto The News Of The Week.

00:04:14: In the first burn rate news we look at physical AI As you mentioned, AI that doesn't just produce text images or code but acts in the physical world.

00:04:24: For example robotics industrial automation autonomous vehicles chips or advanced materials.

00:04:31: according to a recent analysis by sifted The startup publication of the Financial Times around seven billion euros have flowed into European Physical AI startups over the past two years.

00:04:43: Particularly interesting from a Swiss perspective, Zurich ranks second in Europe by number of deals with twenty-five deals and two hundred forty one million euros.

00:04:53: In funding only London is ahead.

00:04:56: guy Are you surprised that Zurich?

00:04:59: Is already so far ahead in physical AI?

00:05:02: honestly not really.

00:05:02: I mean we talk every week about startups And the swiss venture ecosystem and Zurich is Of course A big topic and physical ai as well.

00:05:10: Zurich has top robotics research at eth and at the same time top AI research through the AI center.

00:05:17: There's so much deep tech talent being trained, and ETH also has a meaningful proximity to industrial companies.

00:05:25: That creates extremely strong conditions to take a leading position in physical AI.

00:05:31: What surprises me more is that we're already so visible, In terms of deal count from the ETH side... ...in terms of funding London far ahead.

00:05:40: I didn't note the exact number but i think it was around two billion!

00:05:45: That's extremely high but driven by one or two very large transactions But The Number Of Deals Is Increasing and that points To A Solid Swiss Ecosystem.

00:05:54: Looking ahead, do you think physical AI could become more important for Switzerland than classic software or consumer AI startups?

00:06:02: Yes absolutely.

00:06:03: I would almost sign that.

00:06:05: Switzerland isn't exactly the obvious place for a huge consumer platform with maybe someday ten million people.

00:06:12: We're relatively small but where we are extremely strong is engineering precision industry medtech and robotics And physical AI plays a major role in all of those areas.

00:06:22: I do believe that the most exciting Swiss AI startups will come from combination of AI and The Real World, much more so than next chatbot app coming out Switzerland.

00:06:33: Let's move to a second piece news – A new swiss unicorn!

00:06:37: Vivardis, dental medtech company from ZUG has received strategic minority investment from various funds managed by Apollo.

00:06:45: The valuation is apparently over one billion dollars.

00:06:49: Vivardis now the few privately held European healthcare unicorns.

00:06:54: The company develops Curadont, a non-invasive treatment for early stage cavities.

00:06:59: instead of drilling and filling technology repairs enamel stops early decay.

00:07:04: according to the company curadont has already been used on around three million teeth in US present almost twenty percent general dental practices.

00:07:14: That's quite impressive.

00:07:15: What's interesting is this isn't a classic software case, but a Swiss deep tech and medtech company scaling through research clinical evidence and strong commercialization.

00:07:27: Guy are you surprised that the dental MedTech Company from Zug has reached unicorn status?

00:07:32: No not really.

00:07:34: And now I also know it's pronounced vivardis...that makes sense.

00:07:38: Thanks Max.

00:07:39: I mean, dental medtech isn't one of the loud startup sectors but there's a lot of innovation happening and Switzerland is right at the forefront.

00:07:46: We see that again with this transaction.

00:07:49: we have strong research excellent MedTech know-how regulatory quality And Vivardis addresses One Of The Biggest Global Problems.

00:07:57: Cavities are extremely widespread.

00:08:00: If you haven't had one by our age hey!

00:08:01: You've brushed well.

00:08:03: Harrybo makes children happy and dentists too.

00:08:07: And offering a treatment without drilling is huge market and big win for customers.

00:08:12: It's not always the most pleasant experience.

00:08:14: Max, what's important point in this news?

00:08:17: The billion dollar valuation, Apollo investment or rapid adoption of US?

00:08:22: Yes I've been thinking about that!

00:08:25: I think it's the adoption in U.S Evaluation is important but ultimately just signal.

00:08:31: What matters is... Is product actually being used?

00:08:34: If curadont has already been used in millions of treatments and is established in many dental practices, that shows not just research but real commercial scaling.

00:08:44: And that's what makes the case so compelling!

00:08:46: Then we analyze the latest data on the VC seed market In The US.

00:08:51: These trends often lead Europe.

00:08:54: According to Crunchbase Seed funding in the U.S Has Not Collapsed.

00:08:58: That's Good News But It Is Changing Significantly.

00:09:02: Smaller pre-seed and seed rounds between two hundred thousand five million dollars declined by around twenty percent in twenty twenty five.

00:09:10: At the same time, large seed rounds are growing significantly.

00:09:14: particularly interesting In twenty twenty-five more than half of US Seed Capital went into rounds off ten million dollars or more.

00:09:23: just to remember these are seed or precede rounds.

00:09:27: a few years ago seed was much more characterized by smaller tickets.

00:09:31: Today, we see a kind of split.

00:09:34: Either startup has an extremely strong AI team very fast growth well-known founders.

00:09:40: then it can raise huge seed rounds or It belongs to the large group for which fundraising Has become much harder you could say?

00:09:47: It's never been easier To build a product and never harder to build A business guy.

00:09:52: does seeds still exist as We know it?

00:09:55: Or is it partly already a disguised series a?

00:09:58: Yes, I mean for the large AI rounds.

00:10:00: it really doesn't feel like classic seed financing anymore.

00:10:03: when a startup raises ten twenty or fifty million Or even more as we've often seen in the last two years It's no longer about building our first product.

00:10:12: It's about speed Executing the idea hiring talent Often also computing capacity.

00:10:18: that's extremely expensive Even early on And it's about capturing the market as quickly and broadly, that is more like blitz scaling at seed which used to happen in series A after product validation.

00:10:31: Max what does this mean for regular founders who aren't ex open AI deep mind or stand for delete teams?

00:10:39: I think they need to show much more clearly why they will win a very tight customer focus, strong distribution real willingness to pay and maybe an unfair advantage in the market.

00:10:49: A good AI product alone is no longer enough especially since many can now quickly build an MVP.

00:10:56: We'll also hear this interview with Oli Flukiger.

00:10:59: The question becomes more important Who could turn it into a real business?

00:11:04: That's where we'd be separated from the chaff.

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00:12:28: an early investor for a new generation of startups, namely companies that use AI tools, vibe coding and agent-native workflows to build test and further develop products in an extremely short time.

00:12:43: What interests us most is how early stage investing changes when an MVP no longer takes months but sometimes only days?

00:12:52: or is it the founders behind?

00:13:00: With Oli, we'll look at how Vibe VC is structured which startups are investable for them.

00:13:06: Which signals they use instead of classic pitch decks and wear biggest opportunities but also red flags with vibe coded companies.

00:13:16: Just a few words about Oli As well known.

00:13:19: he's an old hand in Swiss startup ecosystem.

00:13:23: Oli is tech entrepreneur has been working for many years on digital business models, platforms startups and entrepreneurship.

00:13:32: And is also active as a lecturer speaker and board member.

00:13:36: welcome to burn rate ollie.

00:13:38: thank you very much for the invitation.

00:13:40: hi everyone

00:13:41: hello ollie.

00:13:42: let's go straight into the questions.

00:13:48: What exactly do you do and how are you structured?

00:13:51: So as a classic VC fund with investors in the background, or did you choose a different model there.

00:13:56: Maybe you can also say something about the target portfolio size And the number of startups You want to invest in and ticket sizes?

00:14:05: A lot of questions at once.

00:14:07: I'll start With what we...what We Do?

00:14:09: so..we Are a super early-stage investor.

00:14:12: Our idea is that we invest as the very first investor in vibe coded or precisely a genetic engineered projects.

00:14:19: And why do you?

00:14:21: We asked ourselves how venture capital reacts to agentic engineering and whether early stage investments are even still needed at all when the speed of bringing new product to market rises so massively, costs fall massively at the same time.

00:14:36: So today with Claude code You can program an MVP With many AI tools, you can create a brilliant marketing strategy super quickly.

00:14:47: Is venture capital even still needed?

00:14:49: And we believe yes but that it also changes a lot.

00:14:52: as a VC You mainly have to finance customer contact.

00:14:56: That first validation and no longer the development.

00:14:59: In addition We believed that pitch decks today are all made with AI anyway.

00:15:03: All look great Have super-great content So as startup No longer really differentiate yourself there either.

00:15:10: Then asked ourselves Yes, what should you look at today as an early stage investor?

00:15:15: And we thought about founding a micro VC that operates and MCP server.

00:15:20: So one that can be very easily integrated into the agentic engineering environment via an MCP Server.

00:15:27: We then essentially looked over developers' shoulders At What They Are Doing.

00:15:32: If we find project interesting Then we invest.

00:15:35: We make small tickets, so that can already be on the second or third day of a project.

00:15:40: And those can then before figure five-figure ticket sizes for the moment.

00:15:45: you also asked how we are financed at the moment?

00:15:49: The three of us are doing this privately but we can well imagine raising a real fund At a later point.

00:15:55: That sounds extremely exciting.

00:15:57: and what does a vibe coded startup have to show today For you to say yes This is investable now?

00:16:03: You said it's extremely early on the second or third day.

00:16:06: What are the topics you look at?

00:16:07: Yes, that is also a very good question.

00:16:09: I think part of it is classic.

00:16:11: Or there has to be a clear customer problem The total addressable market definitely has to large enough.

00:16:19: So we can't just be anything vibe coded but rather like Andre Carpathy now said agentic engineered.

00:16:24: So already, a larger project than just small app that doesn't solve the problem.

00:16:29: then there should somehow be market entry strategy.

00:16:32: so an idea of how you want to go to market and ideally very first traction signals.

00:16:37: we see it does not have customers or anything yet but github stars linked in post goes viral.

00:16:45: maybe first traffic on landing page something where simply There are first signals from the market.

00:16:52: You said you invest small tickets, that came across clearly.

00:16:58: What role does this capital play specifically?

00:17:00: so?

00:17:00: Does it then have to be used in a very earmarked way or are the projects free there.

00:17:06: So I think basically, The Projects Are Free and how they use the money.

00:17:09: but of course It should Be about Validating the product reaching first users.

00:17:14: what you do with early-stage Capital i Think for founder speed For example.

00:17:19: You probably don't need Money anymore today.

00:17:21: With Claude code you are extremely fast fast enough

00:17:25: now.

00:17:25: if MVPs can be built In days How do you recognize whether there is real founder quality behind a product and not just simply, A well-made prompt or a demo?

00:17:36: Yes.

00:17:36: So I think today it takes hours rather than days to vibe code something And It's very good question which we also have Not yet answered conclusively.

00:17:44: I think that the whole Vibe VC, is also an experiment for us.

00:17:48: We still have to learn in enormous amount but we definitely look at market size as i said earlier attraction and certainly want see how the founder's vibe code so what the prompts looks like exactly they are doing there?

00:18:03: We then looked at analytics wants access e.g.

00:18:06: to post hog post-hog, where we can see traction a bit and of course also other GitHub repositories.

00:18:14: So if there are a lot of wasted repositories when nothing is being done anymore then the probability is high that nothing will continue with the latest project

00:18:22: either.".

00:18:36: looking under the hood and you don't look at the car from outside.

00:18:38: I

00:18:40: think our decisions will be made very quickly, it may still do a call with founders but we immediately make an investment offer.

00:18:50: We don't focus on Switzerland, but actually are or would invest internationally.

00:18:54: And yes it can of course very well be that we never get to know the founders at all.

00:18:59: and you also replace The Classic Pitch Deck as mentioned through your MCP server.

00:19:04: That is extremely exciting!

00:19:06: We will replace the pitch deck theater.

00:19:08: basically

00:19:08: Yes exactly Which signals from the vibe coding environment for investment decision?

00:19:15: You already said a bit What is especially meaningful and how do you also get to the people today?

00:19:21: People send a pitch deck everywhere via LinkedIn.

00:19:24: And of course, they don't all know your server yet.

00:19:26: that is also good question.

00:19:29: we are trying to get traction ourselves as it's off course.

00:19:31: the case has a new investor.

00:19:35: That's why I'm here with you today.

00:19:37: Yes i think there uh... There was a flood of vibe coded apps in this.

00:19:41: really important but we gotta Good selection, but I can really also imagine that people create fundable projects who today have absolutely no access or route to venture capital.

00:19:51: So that could be a sixteen year old student school students who program something super cool and would never get capital Today.

00:19:59: Who then gets first funding from us?

00:20:01: And how we ourselves want to get the startups?

00:20:03: yes We are doing it analogously too.

00:20:07: hopefully our start ups set up an open claw That does marketing for us Of course, also through our contacts ourselves.

00:20:15: But we are of course trying ourselves to use AI as intensively possible.

00:20:19: Yes marketed by agents for agents is an interesting approach.

00:20:24: And listening to you many products that have been vibe coded now will hardly get much attention.

00:20:31: and you weight distribution and customer access compared the product or technology.

00:20:39: what are really the key criteria there for how you can assess that such early traction also counts, and not that it is then overtaken from left-and right.

00:20:50: Yes I think we cannot...I don't know whether one could say this conclusively but i always believe they must.

00:20:56: There must first be traction.

00:20:58: But of course, as is always the case with early stage investments it can happen that you are simply overtaken on the left or right?

00:21:05: It can.

00:21:05: so in the end... ...it's also an investment in founders whom we have to believe in some form.

00:21:11: What are typical red flags for you?

00:21:13: and vibe coded startups?

00:21:15: even if product looks good works at first glance?

00:21:18: where do see possible risks there?

00:21:20: I think this changes every day.

00:21:22: So at the moment, it's certainly security risks that are somewhere in there.

00:21:26: But I think that is still a matter of weeks until Vibecode apps are much more secure than manually programmed apps.

00:21:38: then i think It A red flag Is definitely if no problem is being solved.

00:21:43: so a customer Problem also has to be solved today and In ten years.

00:21:47: otherwise it will simply never Be used.

00:21:49: And If we don't understand That Then We Don't Continue.

00:21:53: What would still really interest me is how, in your opinion does the role of an early stage VC now change through agent native startups?

00:22:03: Does the VC become more of a pure capital provider.

00:22:07: Is data analysis becoming essential?

00:22:10: Does he become a product coach I can well imagine or a peer distribution partner?

00:22:16: Yes, maybe everything.

00:22:17: I think that is also part of our hypothesis.

00:22:19: That we still want to test.

00:22:21: as i said We do believe the VC or early stage VC Is mainly there to enable speed market access and As an early-stage investor you basically start directly With due diligence.

00:22:35: it's much more data driven.

00:22:37: The pitch deck will probably not disappear but It'll have less relevance in future.

00:22:42: So... That you remain a capital provider product coach.

00:22:46: Yes, I don't know.

00:22:47: AI can probably do that better than any VC today.

00:22:51: and data analysis yes.

00:22:52: in the end actually also.

00:22:54: The only thing it still cannot do is provide the capital?

00:23:03: I

00:23:04: have no idea it maybe that we know longer exist at all.

00:23:07: It may be that we have raised a fund, if maybe that's simply made somehow ten twenty investments i don't even where will be in three months because we also don't which models on the market and three month weather.

00:23:22: the whole bubble has burst.

00:23:26: Oli, thank you very much for visiting Burnrate.

00:23:29: We're keeping our fingers crossed for you think it's a great project and hope it works out well.

00:23:33: all the best

00:23:34: Thank You Very Much.

00:23:35: Let's

00:23:35: get to the listener question.

00:23:37: we received A Listener Question from Steffi From Freiburg.

00:23:41: She asks herself how do you actually become a good VC investor?

00:23:45: And is going directly into venture capital really The Best Path To Get There?

00:23:50: Yes, that's of course an interesting question Steffi because from the outside VC often looks like a relatively clear career.

00:23:57: Maybe you start as an analyst or associate work your way up build a network, make good deals and eventually become a partner.

00:24:05: But in practice it is often much more complicated.

00:24:08: VC funds are very small organizations like for example with us at Koyo as well.

00:24:13: there only few real-partner roles.

00:24:16: not every career step is standardized as consulting or banking.

00:24:21: On top of that, junior roles in VC may sound attractive but they don't always automatically offer the experiences that later make someone a strong investor.

00:24:31: Because the decisive question is not only can I analyze markets read decks and assess founders well?

00:24:38: But also do i really understand how startups work?

00:24:42: have I experienced How difficult hiring product focus sales fundraising cash management or pivot Can be and can I actually help founders in that situation?

00:24:52: Yes.

00:24:53: And above all, am i able to raise

00:24:56: funds?".

00:24:57: That is also very important there.

00:24:59: Steffi's question therefore goes two directions.

00:25:02: so should one enter VC as early as possible or is it wiser first gather operational experience on a startup?

00:25:10: what would funds have do really develop young talent into good VCs?

00:25:16: Yes, guy.

00:25:17: Would you say that anyone who wants to be successful in venture capital long term should first gain startup experience themselves as a founder or an operator?

00:25:26: Or in early team

00:25:28: role?"?

00:25:28: That is certainly added value for this path.

00:25:31: it gives the profile of the first steps toward becoming VC.

00:25:35: Because VC is not a purely analytical job, of course you have to understand markets be able to assess business models and also build take apart in question investment cases.

00:25:46: But in the end, you invest in companies that have to grow under extreme uncertainty and where an enormous number of puzzle pieces have to fit together.

00:25:55: And there are a lot.

00:25:56: experience and gut feeling is involved in very early phase until it gets into let's say series A Where then use more numbers customer conversations and bitmore data.

00:26:08: someone who has worked at startup understands many things much more intuitively.

00:26:13: How hard is it to find good people?

00:26:15: I mean, that is an enormous pain.

00:26:16: In a startup you have almost no capital to pay good salaries and so you somehow have to motivate people to come to you and actually accept the lower salary.

00:26:26: then suddenly understand if you've worked in start-up how chaotic many product decisions can be and how long sales cycles really take.

00:26:35: they are not simply six weeks written on pitch deck just because one customer once managed.

00:26:40: Sometimes it is simply months until the first client, sometimes even years.

00:26:44: Then what it is like to pivot also incredibly good experience.

00:26:48: and then yes how quickly.

00:26:50: a runway of a few months suddenly feels extremely short because you suddenly simply stand in front of the cliff And have to decide what comes next.

00:26:58: these are experiences You can make in a startup Not necessarily in VC, but I would also say that not every VC has to have been a founder before or worked in the startup.

00:27:09: But operational experience often gives you a bit more empathy and better sense of which problems are really critical... ...and which simply look big on paper and may be made big in start-ups pitch And especially in Europe.

00:27:21: it is important for me to bring in a bit of startup experience A bit operator know how if want call at that We have an enormous number of smart investors with backgrounds in consulting, banking and the corporate world.

00:27:35: That can definitely be valuable.

00:27:36: but when a fund simply has too little operational experience in the team or generally too little experience in investment space then there is real danger analyzing startups very much like normal companies basically established firms not really understanding enough how these startups emerge, how they grow and where the dynamics lie.

00:27:59: I mean you can also say at Kojo Maxx we have completely different profiles in career paths.

00:28:04: i am more than one who after studying doing a postdoc gained a bit of operational experience but then relatively quickly moved on to an investor track.

00:28:16: You are clearly much more the operator built and exited your own companies And I do think a good balance is important there so that you can look at cases quickly and well, always be honest in the team.

00:28:29: That's important!

00:28:31: Yes many young people will say they'll go directly to a VC fund after university or one-or two years of work experience.

00:28:39: then work my way up.

00:28:40: from your perspective Is it realistic career path?

00:28:44: It could be realistic.

00:28:45: You see people who have done but need to look at it soberly.

00:28:49: VC, as you mentioned is not the same career architecture.

00:28:53: As for example in consulting which we are very often compared to a bit.

00:28:59: In most funds.

00:29:00: there Is no clean pyramid where every year or Every two years A certain number of people are promoted and There Are Very Clear Levels And Goals For How To Become An Associate Or A Principal.

00:29:11: That Basically Doesn't Exist In Most VC Fund.

00:29:15: The fund Fund teams are too small and the organization is extremely flat.

00:29:21: And as you also mentioned, there are very few partner seats.

00:29:25: then in the final step... ...you really have to deal with being able to fundraise and having network not only on startup side but also investor's side.

00:29:34: so on LP side Yes becoming a partner doesn't just mean taking more responsibility but receiving economics the carry and decision rights.

00:29:47: And there you are not only deciding over your own money, but also over the money of the investors.

00:29:54: You do look at it a bit differently when you make an investment decision than when you're basically an employee or for fund?

00:29:59: I mean these decisions right in the carry that existing partners don't automatically share either... Maybe we see this way too Max!

00:30:12: If you want to become a partner GP of the fund, then that can easily take eight-to ten years in a fund because maybe you are only a GP by third or fourth fund once you have become a functionary there.

00:30:25: And yes for junior investors it is therefore crucial when looking at a position To ask yourself do I get real deal responsibility?

00:30:34: Am i allowed to build topics myself?

00:30:36: will be visible and successful investments.

00:30:39: So will I be mentioned in media releases, do i have access to founders?

00:30:44: To the LPs.

00:30:45: Can I also help make portfolio decisions or am I actually mainly active in screening and research

00:30:50: mode?".

00:30:50: And if the latter is the case then you can learn a lot very quickly but that does not automatically put you on the path to

00:30:57: partnership.".

00:30:58: Then move from VC to startup of specialization into specific topic.

00:31:03: it could extremely valuable long term We see that very often as well, that junior VC's up to associate level move into a startup and then spend a few years there.

00:31:16: Then they come back as investors with much more experience.

00:31:21: So my advice here would be anyone entering VC as a Junior should consciously check whether the fund really develops talent or if it is simply stepping stone And you have to be aware of what your getting in.

00:31:35: Max, what would you advise someone who says today I want to become a partner in a VC fund in five to ten years?

00:31:42: What is the best path here.

00:31:47: that can be operational startup experience for example in growth sales product talent finance or strategy if you work close enough to the decisive questions and a good start up.

00:32:08: You learn an enormous amount about how companies are really built.

00:32:12: but it can also be deep domain expertise.

00:32:15: is someone really knows their way around for example climate health defense, enormously valuable for specialized funds, precisely because good investors don't just have to recognize generically exciting founders but must understand earlier in specific markets what is becoming possible.

00:32:34: Direct entry into VC can of course work.

00:32:37: You said that too, but then I would pay very close attention to whether you only make PowerPoints and complete or conduct screening Or whether you actually get ownership.

00:32:45: so your own theses Your own founder relationships your own deals real portfolio work.

00:32:51: And for VC funds my point would be if you want young talent?

00:32:55: You also have to treat them like future investors not just as analytical capacity.

00:33:00: That means clear development paths fair deal attribution, access to decision-making processes and real responsibility.

00:33:08: In the end you don't become a good VC by only talking about startups.

00:33:11: You become better by being close enough To real companies, real markets And real founder problems.

00:33:17: That is exactly what you should seek as early As possible in your career.

00:33:20: Thankyou very much Steffi for The exciting question.

00:33:24: Always A Good Topic to Explore a bit Where u stand?

00:33:27: How U get where u actually Stand now And maybe just to say here as well.

00:33:31: at Kojo, we keep receiving exciting profiles.

00:33:35: Of course We always look at them In detail and also give feedback but currently we are not in the process of expanding The team so you shouldn't get your hopes up too much right away.

00:33:46: So let's get to the transactions of the week.

00:33:48: last week We again saw several exciting Transactions and we have briefly summarized the most important ones Here for you.

00:33:54: yes exactly Let's start with the robotics startup, Bobble Robotics from Dubendorf near Zurich.

00:34:01: They were founded in twenty-twenty five and have now closed a preceed round of five million US dollars.

00:34:07: The Round was led by Episode One Ventures Astorian Ventures at Norsk and Evolve!

00:34:19: Bubble Robotics is building a fleet of autonomous robotic systems for continuous use at sea, so in the ocean.

00:34:26: Instead of carrying out individual missions with ships uh crews and heavy equipment The systems are supposed to remain permanently in the sea And carryout inspections monitoring and data collection there twenty four seven three hundred and sixty five days.

00:34:42: At its core it is about turning expensive punctual offshore operations into permanent autonomous infrastructure.

00:34:49: I looked at this more closely, the customers are wherever offshore infrastructure has to be monitored for example in maritime security subsea infrastructure imports of course as well energy companies and for example also operators of undersea cables.

00:35:06: these assets in particular Are becoming more important but often remain not monitored In real time.

00:35:13: Bubble already speaks of letters-of-intent worth more than four million US dollars and planned deployments in the offshore wind sector, maritime security and subsea infrastructure.

00:35:23: Yes that is an interesting timing aspect.

00:35:25: they are finding here a topic that has been increasingly on media at the moment or over the past few years when looking at global infrastructure and offshore operations as simply really extremely expensive dangerous hard to scale, and at the same time there is an acute structural labor shortage in this area.

00:35:45: And on top of that critical maritime infrastructures have moved much more strongly into the geopolitical spotlight as I mentioned here.

00:35:53: So bubble is not simply selling an underwater robot, but a new model of robotics as the service at sea.

00:36:00: for permanent presence in

00:36:07: The robotics as a service approach is essential here because customers do not need high initial investments or their own offshore mobilization.

00:36:19: Strategically, it's about bringing the tech out of early development phase into real deployments and thereby building new autonomous infrastructure layer for the ocean.

00:36:29: Let us move to next transaction.

00:36:31: This time its' not about financing round but an asset and patent deal.

00:36:35: Bivi, a company from the Swiss Jura has acquired assets and patents of nine T-Labs.

00:36:40: Nine T-labs as most you probably know have been in bankruptcy and liquidation since November twenty twenty five.

00:36:47: we also reported on that.

00:36:48: it is a Zurich deep tech startup for additive manufacturing with continuous carbon fibers.

00:36:54: so bivi taking over technology machines restructuring situation.

00:36:58: Nine T-Labs developed a technology that enables high strength composite components with up to sixty percent continuous carbon fiber content and precise fiber alignment, to be manufactured additively.

00:37:12: Bivi is now continuing this tech under the name Neocarb.

00:37:16: The most important claim is Components can be twice as strong And up to seventy percent lighter than titanium.

00:37:23: So exactly where weight and performance are decisive?

00:37:26: Bivi wants to bring neocarp primarily into the watch industry, aerospace mobility and medtech.

00:37:33: That fits very well with their origin in the Jura.

00:37:36: this region is extremely strongly rooted in precision industry and watchmaking And at the same time The technology also shows great potential beyond that wherever Highly load bearing components are needed.

00:37:50: Yes, BV plans to invest several million francs in a new technology center which could already open in twenty-twenty seven.

00:37:59: there the acquired machines or two be used and neocarp further developed for industrial applications.

00:38:05: strategically this is therefore less of a classic exit And more of an industrial utilization of deep tech IP with the aim of turning the tech from nine T labs into market ready components for demanding industries.

00:38:19: With the third transaction, we go to Lucerne.

00:38:22: Bugbante Switzerland is a Lucerne cybersecurity startup founded in twenty-twenty.

00:38:28: Now The Company has completed a series A round of twelve million Swiss francs!

00:38:40: The platform combines AI orchestration, proprietary testing contests, offensive AI agents and a vetted global community of more than sixteen thousand ethical hackers.

00:38:56: The core is moving away from one-off penetration tests toward ongoing measurable test coverage on the entire exposed attack

00:39:03: surface.".

00:39:14: operators of critical infrastructure and also public sector bodies.

00:39:19: Particularly relevant is that the Federal Office for Cybersecurity, BACS ,is among its customers which has a strong trust signal in this market.

00:39:29: What's perhaps worth mentioning about The Round is quite interesting.

00:39:32: This is Series A. One usually assumes that a seed & pre-seed round had been raised before.

00:39:39: That isn't the case here.

00:39:41: Bug bounty bootstrapped and has actually grown profitably up to now.

00:39:45: And this is its first external financing round.

00:39:48: The fresh capital therefore marks the transition from a self-financed founder led company, To an internationally scaling cyber security scaleup or that Is at least what they plan with this financing around?

00:40:00: Of course the timing fits very well cloud SaaS APIs and AI generated code That continuously increases the attack surface.

00:40:10: We have heard an enormous amount in recent weeks about what Claude Code and new models can now do, of course attackers also use that to find vulnerabilities faster and

00:40:23: intervene.".

00:40:30: On the one hand, international expansion.

00:40:32: The expansion of AI-supported and increasingly autonomous orchestration of security tests And also team growth.

00:40:39: The founders will continue to retain the majority... ...and Diretissima partner Philip Bolliger Will join board directors.

00:40:47: Strategically it is therefore about turning a profitable Swiss specialist into European player for continuous cyber resilience.

00:40:55: So with last transaction we include an exit on program.

00:40:58: Polariton Technologies, a Swiss photonics startup was acquired by the US semiconductor company Marvel Technology.

00:41:07: Unfortunately as so often the financial details were not disclosed.

00:41:11: it would have been extremely exciting to get a bit of insight here.

00:41:15: Strategically The deal fits exactly into context of AI data center boom wherever higher bandwidths and more energy-efficient optical connections are needed.

00:41:25: Yes, Polariton develops I have to read this here Plasmonix based silicon photonics components in particular high speed modulators for Optical data transmission.

00:41:35: put simply it is about converting electrical signals into optical signals extremely quickly an energy efficiently.

00:41:42: the tech is supposed to enable Higher density More parallel optical links And very low energy consumption per bit exactly what modern AI and cloud data centers need.

00:41:53: The customers are providers of datacenters, cloud an optical interconnect infrastructure.

00:41:58: through the acquisition Polaritons technology now becomes part of Marvel's platform for high-speed connectivity fits extremely well with relevant market.

00:42:08: these applications Datacenter Interconnect scalar cross connections, and the next generation of one point six three point two terabit.

00:42:17: And also optical networks.

00:42:18: beyond that

00:42:19: what's interesting is that polarity sits exactly at One Of The Central bottlenecks of AI infrastructure.

00:42:26: data has to be moved ever faster and more energy efficiently in data centers.

00:42:31: Marvel is a major player, it has to be said in data infrastructure semiconductors with revenue of more than eight billion dollars and they are buying not just IP here but also a highly specialized engineering team.

00:42:45: For me this is good example how Swiss DeepTech can be integrated into global semiconductor

00:42:50: roadmaps.".

00:42:52: an exit here, but also a pity.

00:42:56: Once again, attack very likely sold early overall for Marvel.

00:43:00: they are strengthening their portfolio around electro optics photonics and switching of custom silicon.

00:43:09: for Polariton or the team.

00:43:11: it is off course.

00:43:12: all so positive They now have entry into global industrial platform.

00:43:17: marvel has extremely good reputation in this sector.

00:43:21: Now they can potentially bring the tech into commercial products much faster, strategically.

00:43:26: a clear AI infrastructure exit

00:43:48: from.