E94 [AI-Translated] Live at Bea | Founder Interview with Sebastian Beetschen, CEO Realwear

00:00:00: The original podcast was recorded in German.

00:00:02: This podcast was translated using artificial intelligence, Burnrate the Venture Insider Podcast with Max Meister and Guy Gifredi.

00:00:11: Hello!

00:00:12: A warm welcome to Burnrate – THE VC INSIDER PODCAST.

00:00:16: We are already almost at the hundredth episode.

00:00:19: Tomorrow we will record the ninety-third episode.

00:00:22: Today however…we're still celebrating a premiere.

00:00:25: We are recording our first live podcast today A founder interview with Sebastian Betchen, the founder of ALMA Technologies and today CEO of Realware.

00:00:35: We could hardly have chosen a better place for this than here at the BEA, BEA Expo in Bern one of the largest and most traditional events in Switzerland.

00:00:44: At this point... ...a big thank you to the SME Impulse Programme, Berner Kantonal Bank And all organisers who are making it possible Of course also thanks to our guests listening today To our burn rate sponsors Ari Ventures, Omnium, Wenger Welle and the upscaler program.

00:01:01: My name is Guy Geffredi And I am co-host of Burn Rate The Venture Insider podcast Co-founder & General Partner Of Coyote Capital A Swiss VC fund and co-founder and board member of Ari Venture's The Bernie's Business Angel Club.

00:01:15: Before we jump into conversation with Sebastian Betchen i would like to briefly give you some context about what actually do at burn rate Together With my partner Max Meister Also from Bern, I talk every week about what is happening in the venture capital and startup ecosystem.

00:01:33: We look at the most important financing rounds transactions trends and developments And try to classify them not only What is happening but above all why it is happening?

00:01:49: bring more transparency into the startup ecosystem because much of what happens in our venture world is often difficult to grasp from the outside.

00:01:59: At the same time, The Startup Ecosystem has become an important part of Switzerland's economic landscape with many innovative companies like Alma Technologies or Realware a lot of talent and now also very many jobs that are created annually.

00:02:13: In addition Max and I, I mentioned it are active as investors.

00:02:20: We focus on deep tech companies so everything based on real technological breakthroughs areas like AI robotics climate Tech And other future relevant topics.

00:02:31: we have been active in the ecosystem for over ten years that is In The Startup Ecosystem For everyone interested, you can of course find Burn Rate on Spotify and Apple Podcasts.

00:02:45: And everywhere else where you normally listen to your podcasts.

00:02:48: We also publish a weekly newsletter and very regularly content on LinkedIn.

00:02:53: but enough about us.

00:02:54: Let's get the most important part today.

00:02:57: Today we have Sebastian Betchen here on stage.

00:02:59: Sebastian is a Bernie startup founder.

00:03:01: He founded Alma Technologies in twenty-twenty one A high tech company that develops and sells or has sold augmented reality glasses AR glasses for industrial applications.

00:03:13: At the beginning of twenty-twenty five, ALMA was sold to Realware after successful launch technology.

00:03:19: that is its first glasses a global leader in field augmented reality industry sector and also wearable technologies particularly nice from burn perspective.

00:03:31: ALMA started at Marked Gasser.

00:03:33: forty six That's where they operated.

00:03:37: Sebastian and his team were then integrated into Realware.

00:03:41: And this corporation, which Sebastian now leads as CEO is managed from Mark Gasser, forty six today we want to get to know Sebastian better in a personal conversation.

00:03:52: We talk about what Alma or real wear actually builds?

00:03:57: We look at the development of Ulmer, the challenges of building a hardware-software startup in a new market.

00:04:03: And then we discuss acquisition by RealWear and what it takes mentally to build and lead globally relevant technology company from Bern.

00:04:12: We talk about what shaped Sebastian – his affinity for technology?

00:04:15: We will start with that right away!

00:04:17: What really drove him to found a company….

00:04:20: Welcome to Burn Rates, Sebastian.

00:04:21: I'm extremely happy you are here.

00:04:24: Hey Guy Thanks For The Invitation.

00:04:26: Let's start very fundamentally.

00:04:28: what exactly does Alma technologies or today real wear actually do?

00:04:33: maybe so you can explain it to the audience that doesn't use our glasses every day or isn't very familiar with technology.

00:04:40: how would u explain it concretely.

00:04:43: So where develops a?

00:04:44: are glasses for industry meaning forefront line workers, I even brought something here.

00:04:49: And what it does is basically that machines are produced in Switzerland or Germany, which are becoming increasingly complex and then shipped all over the world and used there.

00:04:58: if There is a problem there Then only the experts from Switzerland or germany can really help.

00:05:04: previously they had to fly their And with our glasses, the workers who only operate the machine can now put on their glasses.

00:05:10: Through the sensors, the expert from Switzerland or Germany sees exactly what I as a worker see and help me step-by-step to solve my problems.

00:05:19: Yes that is extremely exciting!

00:05:21: That of course massively reduces flights.

00:05:23: so you could almost say you are climate tech startup too.

00:05:28: Maybe give us an example for one your customers has recently solved through Elmer.

00:05:35: We have local customers such as Gilgen Logistics.

00:05:39: They produce here in Bern, Kanton-Bern and then deliver their logistics centers for example to German customers.

00:05:46: they partly do remote assistance on construction sites but we also have customers like Löpfe who bring this to India or Bangladesh And then support inspections from Switzerland.

00:05:56: Very exciting.

00:05:57: so global customers?

00:05:58: you mentioned a few Swiss customers earlier.

00:06:01: Where is your main customer base located today?

00:06:03: In Europe & America?

00:06:05: And maybe again, why is this technology so relevant today?

00:06:08: What has changed in recent years.

00:06:10: So that video assistance with augmented reality glasses Is even used to day and then a market is developing for it?

00:06:17: Yes!

00:06:18: I think on the one hand The problems were always there but It's now become possible also due To better internet connections Through Covid- it became clear That video telephony Became normal.

00:06:30: That became possible, and now with AI it is accelerating again because our glasses are like the first devices that see exactly what a human sees... ...and can really be enhanced.

00:06:40: Yes extremely exciting!

00:06:42: That helps us classify a bit better What It Is about technologically And also practically.

00:06:48: Now let's take a big step back to Sebastian's background.

00:06:52: You are from Bern, you told me that you grew up in Rural Kirchlandach went to high school in Bern and later studied engineering at EPFL.

00:06:59: After that you were in Delft at ETH And then also in China.

00:07:04: I have read this Tsinghua University.

00:07:07: Let start with the beginning.

00:07:09: What shaped your childhood and youth so they took the steps into entrepreneurship?

00:07:14: Yes!

00:07:14: Good question.

00:07:15: I think i already had a bit of spirit, discovery and invention in me.

00:07:21: Those were important influences or characteristics from the beginning.

00:07:25: my family part was also entrepreneurs.

00:07:28: you get used to that.

00:07:29: yes those are two main points.

00:07:31: so entrepreneurship and affinity for technology.

00:07:35: how did it manifest your interest?

00:07:40: On one hand focus bursts.

00:07:42: as child especially when playing with lego When I got a new LEGO Technic set, i would only do that for two days until it was finished.

00:07:49: Not even eat!

00:07:50: My mother was sometimes a bit worried That I didn't eat or sleep For two days Until It Was Done And then everything was normal again.

00:07:57: But I think that was definitely something.

00:07:59: and Then over time Yes growing up with agricultural machines I also briefly passed by them here at BEA.

00:08:06: And later computers Taking computers apart Putting back together Improving Them Um...and that developed quite naturally.

00:08:14: You said something interesting in preparation, that agricultural machines as a tool for humans to even perform at task really shaped you.

00:08:23: What was an image that stayed in your mind?

00:08:25: Yes so agricultural machines simply amplify human strength muscle power and I think today it's unthinkable without agricultural machines.

00:08:34: And I think, in the future it will be unthinkable to have our mental power without machines.

00:08:39: Because they massively amplify our mental powers and much more will come!

00:08:44: So...I think that was one thing really touched me.

00:08:47: The other is also seeing Switzerland as relatively poor.

00:08:51: Not so long ago My ancestors came from Lenk in Simental.

00:08:55: Some of them had emigrate to America because they didn't enough eat.

00:08:59: They went by sailing ship then migrated across america to chop wood on west coast for the gold miners.

00:09:06: And when they had earned enough money, they migrated back returned by sailing ship and went back to Lenk but then had enough money?

00:09:13: I think today we sometimes forget that so many of our ancestors worked extremely hard So that now complain about a cold cheeseburger.

00:09:23: There is also part of me who wants to make contributions in society.

00:09:28: Yes Silicon Valley Impact!

00:09:30: That's exciting.

00:09:30: We will come back later.

00:09:32: And maybe briefly on your path, you studied at ETH and Tsinghua University two of the best places for computer vision.

00:09:41: A topic where you are now an industry expert but may be a bit on the dynamics... You mentioned Switzerland earlier was relatively poor.

00:09:51: then wealth was built through hard work.

00:09:53: it's similar with China today if you look at the dynamics of both universities and maybe also in the markets.

00:09:59: how did u experience that?

00:10:00: what stands out?

00:10:01: so i was first at e p f l et h losan, Whereas I find ETH is too aware of its reputation and praises itself too much, And it's not dynamic enough.

00:10:17: In China for example the whole attitude Is very different.

00:10:20: people are more ambitious They still have to catch up massively.

00:10:24: There is higher pressure in a positive sense More energy and i strongly miss that.

00:10:29: So

00:10:30: you basically brought the energy back To Switzerland.

00:10:32: can one say?

00:10:36: Yes

00:10:37: we won't go into politics now.

00:10:40: Then you decided to found Olmer together with your co-founder, Taiman.

00:10:44: How did the idea for Olmer actually emerge?

00:10:47: This optics topic... You explained a few years ago that at that time augmented reality in industrial environments was still very beginning and basically non existent.

00:10:57: how do start?

00:10:58: what is trigger?

00:11:01: Yes, I think the main reason was that i saw that HoloLens and other big companies like Apple with the apple vision pro all make these huge glasses.

00:11:10: That can do many things technologically but not really well.

00:11:13: Not a good product.

00:11:14: That solves one thing completely Well And I just said that won't work.

00:11:18: Like that something will be missing even if it's very impressive technology.

00:11:22: It needs Something that is truly A good Product and much more focused?

00:11:26: If they don't Do it someone has to do it because it's super important technology to move society forward, so we'll do it.

00:11:33: And it wasn't necessarily the goal... ...to found a company but rather a base platform that others could build on.

00:11:39: ETH didn't want to support us Because It was too applied and you couldn't write papers.

00:11:44: So We Founded A Company

00:11:45: Interesting!

00:11:46: So basically founding a company out of necessity?

00:11:49: Because research Didn't Want To Research.

00:11:52: Could You Say That?

00:11:53: You Then Called Your Co-Founder Timon.

00:11:56: You Knew Him From EPFL

00:11:58: Exactly.

00:12:00: I

00:12:02: didn't want to convince him, honestly that wasn't the plan!

00:12:27: Can you recommend

00:12:28: some?".

00:12:29: And he said, I have some interviews next week.

00:12:52: Yes, good question.

00:12:54: I think we just weren't aware that We were really founding a company but more like a very aggressive and ambitious student project at the beginning?

00:13:20: Others found what we did cool and helpful.

00:13:23: Then, We had more money And another six months.

00:13:25: then we thought okay Six more month's

00:13:28: cool

00:13:28: full speed again?

00:13:29: So it continued until we suddenly became quite big.

00:13:32: yes extremely exciting.

00:13:34: so no risk No fun and all in mentality.

00:13:37: one could summarize a little like that What Did you focus on this initial phase?

00:13:42: It is Extremely complex.

00:13:44: it Is hardware it is software of course almost A road map to the product.

00:13:48: and what did That look Like?

00:13:49: Yes, so originally the dream was always really also glasses.

00:13:54: We just then asked ourselves okay what does it really need?

00:13:57: And in parallel to the main development technology development we actually did customer research and experimented with.

00:14:04: customers pretty quickly got into touch with industrial companies for that.

00:14:09: we basically developed a prototype which is nothing more than a helmet or smartphone glued on top depending, and it was remotely controlled by Timon.

00:14:19: And that worked very well.

00:14:20: with It we could very quickly adjust what it really needs What the field of view meaning?

00:14:25: The size Of the display has to be what it should show whatnot.

00:14:28: and We did That until the customers actually wanted To buy this prototype.

00:14:32: of course they couldn't because Timon is not for sale but um...that way..we were able to find out Very Quickly.

00:14:39: okay!What does it Really

00:14:40: need?!

00:14:41: What Is Not so Important?

00:14:42: And one thing we learned, for example is that many large companies like Microsoft or Apple primarily optimized For the largest possible field of view meaning The largest possible display.

00:14:53: That sounds very cool But for industrial customers it doesn't bring that much.

00:14:57: They actually want something smaller but with Very good quality.

00:15:01: We noticed and did too And it was very appreciated.

00:15:04: So you really focused on the customer and defined technology or requirements, demands together with them... ...and then went into product development of hardware as well as software?

00:15:17: Yes!

00:15:17: It's never that strongly cut-off.

00:15:20: It is always an interplay every now and then phases where we know the requirements.. ..and do a bit more just product development.

00:15:28: Sometimes you do a bit more only customers, but it is actually always the cycle and continuous improvement.

00:15:35: It's not once you've done it then that's it.

00:15:38: But we kept developing.

00:15:40: The ArcOne was also really no commercial product.

00:15:42: We thought it would be more prototypes And did already deliver to certain paying customers.

00:15:50: I am very grateful for our customer who supported us alot there Also had a lot of patience and appreciated how quickly We continued developing.

00:16:00: And maybe briefly back to the first product, we also briefly discussed it in The Preliminary Conversation – a helmet that sometimes fell apart and glued together.

00:16:09: how important was this continuous development you did?

00:16:12: This hey-we have to go to customer and develop it!

00:16:16: Looking back now… How important is that for you become successful at all with ALMA and win

00:16:21: customers?!

00:16:22: I think that's probably one of most important things.

00:16:25: if i do so again... So every second you spend doing that is certainly super valuable.

00:16:31: I think many startups are too afraid, but it's not good enough and yes You feel ashamed down to the ground.

00:16:37: so our first prototypes The ones we made We assembled them on the way there On the train To the customer And then when were at the entrance Everything fell apart again.

00:16:47: Then just put tape all around It and thought We can't continue like this.

00:16:51: But actually you can!

00:16:52: It even very important.

00:16:54: i recommend That everyone If your not ashamed of than you are too late.

00:16:58: Okay, actually very American so be the American and Israeli says go to the customer develop a product.

00:17:03: I

00:17:04: don't know whether that is American or Israeli or whatever but i just think That Is The Right Way.

00:17:10: And You Also Have To Be Open With The Customer And Say Hey This Is Still Heavily In Development.

00:17:16: in return you can also influence it But It May Sometimes Be That It Just Doesn'T Work.

00:17:21: So Yes It Is A Beta Product

00:17:23: And those first customers, pilot customers we call them that you won.

00:17:27: Did they already pay for the product?

00:17:29: and That was the status where they paid for the first projects.

00:17:33: So through that We also developed a new business model Where people actually don't pay For The hardware but for the service so that They can use these products and then continuously receive updates software Updates But Also Hardware.

00:17:47: That means, yes at the beginning they got an ARK one that wasn't good yet but then over time They received a ARK two for free which was much better.

00:17:55: And made many customers super happy because said hey with the ARK One I still don't see image sharply.

00:18:02: thats not good enough.

00:18:03: The camera is not so good and angle should be more downward.

00:18:06: Yes!

00:18:07: Thats very difficult to find out in office.

00:18:09: You simply have to find it through iterating.

00:18:12: We did this with ARK Two.

00:18:14: That's cool.

00:18:15: It is exactly what I said, perfect and that made many very

00:18:19: happy.".

00:18:20: And as far you are allowed to share it with us at all from these first pilot customers how many are still customers today?

00:18:27: So What does the churn rate look like?

00:18:29: Relatively Many!

00:18:31: That almost makes me the proudest...that most of them Are Still

00:18:34: There!!

00:18:34: That Is Super Cool and i appreciate that enormously.

00:18:38: We have now covered enough on strategy risk mindset The starting point.

00:18:43: We already mentioned it, developing hardware is demanding.

00:18:46: Software is then certainly similarly demanding again.

00:18:50: Software never ends.

00:18:51: Software Never Ends exactly and at the same time selling the use case to the customer as a service.

00:18:58: That's of course exciting.

00:19:00: if you can do that way!

00:19:01: That is classic go big or home situation.

00:19:05: You cant simply iterate after two years realising nothing happening And which assumptions that you had right at the beginning in the founding phase turned out to be wrong?

00:19:16: Where did you think, hey we actually wanted it this way and that way.

00:19:20: Maybe its a customer group maybe some kind of development plan where were completely off.

00:19:25: I Think with time.

00:19:26: Time It always takes longer than you think and hope But You Always Have To Begin With The Punchline.

00:19:34: How Hard Can It Be?

00:19:36: Otherwise, you never start.

00:19:38: If you know how long it will take and How much effort?

00:19:40: And how difficult It is then I think nobody would Start Nobody Would become a company i find.

00:19:45: so jensen huang from invidia the founder was asked okay if You were twenty five again what Company would you found?

00:19:53: and he Is super successful even if He knows ok he is super Successful.

00:19:58: he said oh hell no i would not Found A company Again.

00:20:02: and it is simply yes a lot of energy that you have to put in and it is always much more than then.

00:20:32: I calculate with one month.

00:20:36: If he says, One month, one year it is always an order of magnitude more actually than okay

00:20:42: maybe.".

00:20:42: Exactly!

00:20:43: Okay very good and may be also which assumption was surprisingly accurate and confirmed itself extremely strongly?

00:20:49: So focus is always good i think And we preached that from the beginning.

00:20:53: Focus simple so for the customers For the purchase or production.

00:20:57: We did that...I think Always That we yes focused on simplicity.

00:21:02: For example, other competitors of ours had said yes they want like the iPhone model to make as many apps as possible.

00:21:09: And we have exactly one app that started automatically.

00:21:12: so you switched on the device and it starts directly into the app nothing else!

00:21:17: Although we put much less effort in it We had a better experience because I think this has also always paid off That you reduce.

00:21:31: That is notoriously rather difficult, or it was at that time in twenty-twenty one to win funding.

00:21:38: How did you manage?

00:21:39: Maybe briefly for the listeners this is a venture insider podcast so all of fundraising at that time, especially for hardware startups.

00:21:53: Yes I have no comparison honestly and i think if you ask a child how did you learn to walk?

00:21:58: I just did it so it somehow had to work.

00:22:00: then you do it!

00:22:01: So from that perspective...I don't know there is no magic bullet or..i simply have No Comparison maybe at some point with the next-or The one after Next Venture....I can say

00:22:11: It!!

00:22:12: I Don't Know what helped me a lot.

00:22:14: however I Have To Say was the Swisspreneur Fundraising Masterclass That They Did.

00:22:20: For me, that was by far the best material and strategy for doing funding rounds anywhere on the internet.

00:22:27: So shout out to Swisspreneur!

00:22:29: Very

00:22:29: nice

00:22:30: That is really super good And I followed it pretty strictly for first two rounds then developed my own style a bit.

00:22:37: It's actually very helpful but otherwise just do it.

00:22:41: You were several times at end of runway So you didn't have much capital left in the account and had to think about how to still pay salaries or whether to close the doors now.

00:22:51: How did you as founders deal with that, especially when it was no longer just two guys Timon & Sebastian but a whole team dependent on company?

00:23:01: Yes so we started with Timon&Me.

00:23:03: We always had attitude Okay this will end at some point anyway Or precisely as student project.

00:23:14: Cool, we have six months.

00:23:15: Oh wow!

00:23:16: We have a whole

00:23:16: year.".

00:23:17: From that perspective I think were set up differently than most other startups and much more willing to take risks and just said yes go-go-go.

00:23:25: And what actually is the learning?

00:23:29: for example in first one and half years i also didn't pay myself single salary worked on weekends.

00:23:37: What got out of it was more learning If you had this attitude can not lose Only win?

00:23:44: Because learnings, you can't lose them anymore.

00:23:46: You have them

00:23:46: forever.".

00:23:47: And we always looked at it like that and also tried to teach the team that mentality so-to speak.

00:23:52: So simply this attitude.

00:23:54: We didn't have wild parties but certainly very wild days & nights with us Simply because we said Hey!

00:24:00: We are together on The Journey Enjoy The Journey even if It is Hard.

00:24:03: This Is Something Nobody Can Take Away From You.

00:24:06: Whatever Happens Was It Worth It Up To Today?

00:24:08: If Yes Great If No Okay Then We Change That And that way, nobody really has great fear of losing something.

00:24:16: So you can't unlearn something?

00:24:18: That is a very important takeaway I find extremely exciting.

00:24:22: then it moved to bit out the start-up phase.

00:24:24: You shipped the products ARC one was on market and real.

00:24:28: where came?

00:24:29: they wanted acquire U and already an established player One could say David against Goliath.

00:24:35: They had raised over US USD so money invested by venture capital investors.

00:24:42: How did the first conversations with RealWear actually arise and who made the first move?

00:24:47: Yes, that was our mutual partner TeamViewer.

00:24:50: TeamViewers were a global leader in remote assistance.

00:24:54: They worked closely both of us but had some difficulties working with RealWare And therefore increasingly worked with us Because we focused on TeamViewr which they appreciated very much.

00:25:06: That worked well.

00:25:07: TeamViews put together at the table and invited them Hey, let's talk.

00:25:13: Could you imagine working together?

00:25:15: That was how it was and then the conversations actually got

00:25:18: started.".

00:25:19: Yes they got started now.

00:25:21: Alma was David Realware Goliath.

00:25:24: How did you experience these conversations?

00:25:26: what are things that stayed with you And how do have to navigate around as if we say a small fish opposite this large technology company

00:25:40: certainly relatively challenging, but also again if you say we can.

00:25:45: That was also a first for us and that means we also jumped into these negotiations with a certain cheerfulness and yolo attitude that we could actually only learn.

00:25:55: even If it didn't work out then We would be better positioned For the next time.

00:25:59: And because of that I think we were very yes not Very afraid Of losing something and negotiated pretty well.

00:26:05: i would Say in short what?

00:26:08: We had a super, super good team that was very close and gave us backing during the time.

00:26:14: Without them it would not have been possible.

00:26:16: if we'd constantly put out fires within Almer then they wouldn't work at all.

00:26:21: And with the Super Team They gave so much backing That Timon & I could actually focus on negotiation.

00:26:29: what was particularly important in the negotiations.

00:26:32: You mentioned the team, did you bring in external people so that everything was implemented the way you had discussed it and so that it also worked for you?

00:26:40: Yes of course.

00:26:41: we then brought in lawyers and so on externally but no actually otherwise a lot of it...you have to come with these ideas yourself..with these ideas

00:26:49: yes!

00:26:49: And then you were acquired integrated into real wear one can say So basically the company was bought.

00:26:57: How did the roles then develop after the acquisition?

00:27:01: What was your role?

00:27:01: and maybe also what was Taiman's?

00:27:03: yes, so Timon's role was CTO which he still is now.

00:27:07: I Was officially COO for three months And then that changed and we were asked by the board whether we wanted to take over and whether I wanted to be CEO, then I gladly said yes.

00:27:17: So for the CEO that is a bit of understatement.

00:27:20: you were asked whether you wanted to become CEO?

00:27:23: What did you do in those three months so that you are even positioned to take on this CEO role and lead a global team?

00:27:30: So i think during those three month not-that much honestly it was more than time before During negotiations we met most important shareholders of real wear In person got to know them sense them gathered their opinions went through business plans with them, contributed our proposals.

00:27:46: On the one hand that.

00:27:48: on the other hand I think having a smaller startup is the best business school there is and that certainly prepared me very well for it.

00:27:55: It wasn't that much different.

00:27:56: of course we had to learn quite a lot quickly but yes simply bit more complex

00:28:03: not completely new culture, Silicon Valley versus Swiss startup.

00:28:08: How does that differ?

00:28:09: You said your team was great always kept you back free and when we look from Switzerland to Silicon valley everyone is always wow thinking it's a huge thing everything extremely professional Everyone fully pushing twenty four seven mentality.

00:28:26: how did you experience live in your skin?

00:28:29: Yes I think real wear wasn't typical Silicon Valley company On average, they were already a bit older in terms of workforce.

00:28:36: And I think we at Alma are more the Silicon Valley company than there was simply because We're younger and more aggressive and had more of let's do it attitude compared to real wear.

00:28:47: What is certainly different?

00:28:49: Is a bit more of mentality spending money.

00:28:52: I think that also became a problem at RealWare before.

00:28:55: It works up to a certain point, it needs good balance sometimes but fundamentally the way i perceive Silicon Valley is simply saying yes more and more let's do it.

00:29:05: so I am there from time-to-time And its just what I miss in Switzerland.

00:29:09: Just this Yes!

00:29:10: Let's go and lets'do it.

00:29:11: The worst thing can happen Is Ah no..it doesn't work.

00:29:15: Ah not so tragic.

00:29:18: the worst is a no or that it just doesn't work.

00:29:24: And you mentioned culture, what did you have to do so that... The culture was you were seventy employees at the time when you took over the CEO position?

00:29:33: What did you had to do-

00:29:36: A bit more yes

00:29:37: Or even a bit more.

00:29:38: So then it worked like glue again and everyone pulled in same direction.

00:29:43: Yes very good question.

00:29:45: that was probably the hardest thing of all.

00:29:47: i think what is probably most important there was getting out the demotivated people, that yes, and then simply creating a culture where you have high transparency.

00:30:09: That means for example we now have an all-hands every Monday fifteen to twenty minutes but every team says briefly what they did last week.

00:30:18: Where are the problems?

00:30:19: What will do this week?

00:30:20: And short meme for laughing.

00:30:25: And okay, yes I think transparency and short communication paths are super important.

00:30:33: And that you also build trust there in all other

00:30:35: employees.".

00:30:36: And how do you do that concretely?

00:30:40: So you had wild parties –you mentioned earlier–in Switzerland very likely in Bern at Marktgasse now In Silicon Valley in America, one in Bern and then you still have employees globally.

00:30:54: How do you manage a small company like this to maintain the cohesion so that everyone says hey I am an employee of RealWear where i want stay there?

00:31:02: Im not just going into next job because im earning five thousand dollars more per year there

00:31:07: Yes!

00:31:07: So that is certainly much more difficult with team thats distributed Again.

00:31:12: these we call them real wear sinks are very important.

00:31:16: Exactly There's all hands where everyone knows what the others are doing, What they're battling with.

00:31:22: That is very important and then difficult to say simply also having joy And not taking the whole thing too formally.

00:31:30: I think that's important.

00:31:32: We sometimes have in-person meetings Where we fly people there and hold them There.

00:31:39: so those are more frat house style meeting where we all live together for a week, cook together from A to Z sometimes even.

00:31:46: Not in a sexual sense but share beds simply because yes and then just work full speed But also go the beach or whatever.

00:31:53: Yes that bonds people.

00:31:54: Basically it's real experience as team.

00:31:57: When you climb into summit together You connect more than just Hey!

00:32:00: We have meeting and ciao Go spend evening yourself.

00:32:03: Yes exactly

00:32:05: And maybe real wear.

00:32:06: today A few points were could be going too.

00:32:09: Where are u today?

00:32:10: Customers market leadership, maybe number of live devices.

00:32:14: I don't know what you can share and want to tell but that would certainly be exciting to hear.

00:32:19: Yes so we currently have around eighty thousand devices in circulation.

00:32:24: We yes the largest part is in Europe and America And What we are now?

00:32:30: So what Timon & I Are very interested In Is actually The next steps from hardware to more and more software platform because we have invested a lot in the operating system, To make it really very simple-to use.

00:32:40: Because It is new... Really a new compute paradigm.

00:32:44: And there you have to rethink!

00:32:45: It's not apps like smartphones That Is New.

00:32:49: You really need to think carefully about how that works.

00:32:52: We've invested so much.

00:32:56: So now many others are slowly realizing A bit especially with AI.

00:33:03: Oh, okay.

00:33:04: Voice is still cool and now not only our competitors are actually coming to us and want to license the operating system And then it really is a platform But even chip manufacturers.

00:33:14: so Qualcomm and NVIDIA have also heard that They're very actively in conversation with us.

00:33:19: That's of course fun.

00:33:21: Yes we can keep learning a lot.

00:33:23: It is interesting The chip manufacturers from this perspective feel like days for them.

00:33:33: But yes, in that sense I think we are very actively working on it.

00:33:37: And now voice control in Bernese German?

00:33:39: Can you do this?

00:33:40: Yes!

00:33:40: That works too... It is surprising…I find it surprising..it was always, ALWAYS So many friends said, YES,

00:33:47: YES!!

00:33:47: That's our secret language – Bernese-German.

00:33:50: Not even machines understand that.

00:33:52: Yes, well actually it does.

00:33:55: Very good.

00:33:56: The next question would also have gone into the topic of AI, but not exactly on the topic that you might now become an AI device in terms of input.

00:34:05: Everyone is talking about AI.

00:34:07: AI companies are fully in the boom and the hype.

00:34:10: augmented reality was still extremely relevant in twenty-twenty one with COVID With the metaverse Of course But we're no longer in the same hype cycle.

00:34:19: What role does a I play?

00:34:20: In your product development?

00:34:22: so i think We Have integrated AI or simply especially now for example Claude, everywhere and not only in product development.

00:34:29: For Claude Code that is clear but we also have it in sales operations and actually everywhere.

00:34:35: So you fully leverage the universe of AI.

00:34:38: what one can do today so that are an efficient company?

00:34:42: Can one say this?

00:34:43: Yes I think whoever does NOT DO THAT is still being out there with paper.

00:34:47: OK Have fun!

00:34:49: Exactly One can say that We use AI a lot.

00:34:53: That is what makes three out of one today.

00:34:56: And now maybe briefly, you have customers in the USA?

00:35:00: In Asia and Switzerland also in Europe, Germany... You mentioned once how do these three locations differ from a customer perspective and from a dynamics perspective through your

00:35:10: glasses?".

00:35:10: Yes so I think most people in Europe underestimate ...and the Swiss i feel compare themselves with Europe .And that is extremely bad because that Europe at the moment is drifting toward Africa in terms of development level.

00:35:27: So really neither Asia nor America really perceives Europe anymore, not even by now or as a sales market because it's becoming too tedious and we also see this with our customers.

00:35:39: European customers are ultra-tedious, ultra slow then less relevant And in, for example America it is often simply more competent.

00:35:48: Often faster and then real money behind it so that you can really make a project out of it not precisely the whole thing faster and more serious.

00:35:57: So this something I find very... It scares me as Swiss person.

00:36:00: honestly

00:36:01: Yes good we have to keep our eyes open there.

00:36:04: What would happen now if it scares?

00:36:07: There's always an idea one has improve things again.

00:36:11: You also mentioned at beginning hey!

00:36:14: We are Swiss.

00:36:15: Our origin is not on the big resources, oil or gold.

00:36:17: We don't have that.

00:36:19: what would have to happen so that Switzerland and maybe also Europe become more competitive again especially in deep tech In the hardware sector And can build globally scaling technology companies?

00:36:30: Yes So I think we are already at a point where it becomes very difficult To catch up Again.

00:36:35: Honestly, I think it would need something similar to late industrialization.

00:36:39: Switzerland literally missed the connection for the train systems and railway expansion.

00:36:44: It was totally behind And there was the fear that Germany and France and Italy Would actually bypass Switzerland so-to speak?

00:36:52: As a response The Gotthard tunnel was built.

00:36:55: That was actually a collaboration between Industrial entrepreneurs and politics and society all together.

00:37:03: So it does not happen by itself, It was quite a feat of strength.

00:37:08: What that actually achieved Was the foundation Of today's Switzerland and also Todays prosperity And I think it would now need A similar feat of Strength & collaboration between Actually industry and yes Politics in society as whole.

00:37:23: But if society does not want that and compares itself with Europe, yes.

00:37:26: Good luck!

00:37:27: The problem today is... If you look at Europe I find even worse than Switzerland because simply with regulations so much has killed off before you start You have almost no chance.

00:37:41: I mean, maybe if you look back on the now five years of ALMA Now Realware.

00:37:57: What were the most beautiful moments and what are the hardest moments for you as a founder?

00:38:02: Uh...I think those were almost always the same moments.

00:38:05: honestly The Most Beautiful And The Hardest Were Often Similar.

00:38:09: For me ,the most beautiful were often when things So When We Really Actually.

00:38:13: Yes Especially at the beginning we had several times Sometimes Almost Weekly Situations Where It Was If We Don't Get This Done Then The Whole Company Is Done And Everyone Can Go Home.

00:38:22: Then it became so clear that everyone really worked together simply to solve.

00:38:26: And then again, ah okay we solved and a week later something like came back.

00:38:32: That was very intense working together sometimes but many went out somewhere because they were so relieved and slept on the floor in the office altogether the next morning directly into The Daily.

00:38:47: And those were very intense moments, but also very beautiful ones.

00:38:51: I think that team will never forget them for their lives.

00:38:54: Exciting!

00:38:55: As a final question what would you pass on to young entrepreneurs and founders who now want to build a technologically demanding company as you did in today's time?

00:39:05: Just do it.

00:39:06: Simply start yes & don't wait But simply Do It.

00:39:10: Go out with the product before it is perfect.

00:39:12: Yes, yes or also simply found a company Before you have thought about it ten times.

00:39:17: Simply do it and You will learn.

00:39:20: I think that Is the most important thing.

00:39:22: Sebastian heartfelt thanks for your openness For this conversation.

00:39:26: i am very happy That you are here today at burn rate At The BEA live And of course Also A big thankyou to the audience The large audience here at the BEA and the SME Impulse program, again that you really made this event possible.

00:39:44: For everyone who was here You can scan the QR code And listen to more burn rate episodes.

00:39:49: Burn Rate is available as usual on Spotify & Apple Podcasts.

00:39:52: We are happy if you listen in and give us feedback.

00:39:55: Thank you very much!

00:39:56: Until next time At Burn Rate.